Curse

purple chocolat · May 21, 2010, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantalus

i don't understand why people want to gain things by cheating, some sort of pathetic peer group stand around together emoting?

just look around you everywhere you go..
people are lazy ..

a game is meant for fun. if One likes to have fun by showing off titles or items and One is lazy, then One will bot to get his titles/items to be able to show them off.

Also, i bet some people bot so they can sell gold/ectos/whatever on internet for real cash.

fortior · May 26, 2010, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

That just isn't true. GW rewards time > skill. In that regime, you are correct that bots win.

If you set up a regime that legitimately rewards skill > time (as the game was advertised, and to some extent originally was), then there is no reason to bot. The key point is that you cannot reward repetition of tasks. Any time you do that, there is an incentive to bot. If every goal is a one-off (with nested goals for doing the same task faster, for instance), then designing a bot isn't worth the time investment needed to design it.

It's harder to design a PvP regime that does not reward botting, because the game would have to be sufficiently strategic that flawless execution confers no advantage. That really isn't what the PvP crowd wants, at the end of the day.

I think that GW2 will prevent botting not by pure coding but by randomness and dynamic events. You can't really bot an open world with random events and random other players, nor can you bot an instance that changes every time. However if there is a little amount of randomness botting would still be possible (Courier Falken now). Maybe a system that puts trees and rocks in peoples' paths?

spun ducky · May 26, 2010, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by fortior

I think that GW2 will prevent botting not by pure coding but by randomness and dynamic events. You can't really bot an open world with random events and random other players, nor can you bot an instance that changes every time. However if there is a little amount of randomness botting would still be possible (Courier Falken now). Maybe a system that puts trees and rocks in peoples' paths?

This will make it tougher but not near impossible as there are plenty of bots that can handle random changes in terrain and dijkstra's algorithm comes to mind as one of the many ways to optimize the navigation through waypoints.

fortior · May 26, 2010, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by spun ducky

This will make it tougher but not near impossible as there are plenty of bots that can handle random changes in terrain and dijkstra's algorithm comes to mind as one of the many ways to optimize the navigation through waypoints.

random (example incoming) pits of fire in the ground which fit in the environment and instantly kill the character. Detectable by the advanced nervous system you and I have but hard to detect by bots?

Anyhow a system where rewards are tied to story would be nice, no more farming = no more farming bots.

Martin Alvito · May 26, 2010, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fortior

I think that GW2 will prevent botting not by pure coding but by randomness and dynamic events. You can't really bot an open world with random events and random other players, nor can you bot an instance that changes every time. However if there is a little amount of randomness botting would still be possible (Courier Falken now). Maybe a system that puts trees and rocks in peoples' paths?

I seriously doubt that there will not be any repetitive, non-random, rewarding tasks in GW2.

Irrespective of that, the mechanism you refer to cannot solve the problem of PvP botting.

A11Eur0 · May 26, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

sup botter.

That's just a bit unfair....just because someone appreciates the assistance of a skilled teammate, whether it's a bot or not, doesn't mean he actually employs the bots himself. I'm another who would have loved to have a "bot" monk in RA when I was actively in it...better than most real monks I've seen. I'd hate to be in the group opposite it though, but that's just natural.

His point was that the OP witnessed this bot in action then took advantage of it to get 25 consecutives. Afterwards he came to guru and complained. Probably because he couldn't get into a group with a bot monk the rest of the day.

Rikimaru · May 26, 2010, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Far more than the fact that a lot of people are using bots to completely automate PvP, I think it disturbs me to know that it's possible to completely and effectively automate a character in PvP.
That really puts into perspective for me how shallow this game's combat is...

Martin Alvito · May 26, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

Far more than the fact that a lot of people are using bots to completely automate PvP, I think it disturbs me to know that it's possible to completely and effectively automate a character in PvP.
That really puts into perspective for me how shallow this game's combat is...

That's the smartest post I've seen in a while.

For perspective, it's a lot better than combat in other MMOs. The underlying issue that's driving PvP botting is that flawless disruption, timing and movement are disproportionately rewarded in GW combat.

The Josip · May 27, 2010, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Kattar really annoys me. Good thing is when I close the forum he is gone.

axe · May 27, 2010, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

That's the smartest post I've seen in a while.

For perspective, it's a lot better than combat in other MMOs. The underlying issue that's driving PvP botting is that flawless disruption, timing and movement are disproportionately rewarded in GW combat.

Its a "deserved" reward though Martin, because flawless disruption, flawless timing, flawless movement promote the Skill > Time system, but sadly the bot can be programmed to be consistently good in these area's, enough so that it can reap these rewards and tip the scale enough to make the gameplay appear shallow.

Same thing happened with the Tease Hero template, it could tip a battle when it would rupt Infuse causing teams to crumble. That was with just Tease. Now if you had a player that was so flawless at interrupting they might load up more on the rupts, which is what the bots were doing 7 rupts on the bar, no human player would do that because interrupting flawlessly (the key skills on the key players) is not supposed to be easy. But when its scripted, interupt x,y,z skills... thats the main prob.

Glad to see these people banned though.

ShaneOfMach · May 27, 2010, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Oh wow, a bot like this actually exists?

I always thought that it was ridiculous for a Mo/W to have the reflexes of using balanced stance just right before I could get my Coward/Shock off on them, now it kind of makes sense.